AA Update

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Re: AA Update

Postby Pop Zeus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:35 pm

Zattaman wrote:
aTTicA wrote:If he signs tomorrow it doesnt cost him much this year. But every day he waits costs him more. And if im reading the info right if aa refuses to sign his qualifying offer this year on the 1 year deal...he cannot get arbitration next year either.

If he plays in the khl..who were supposedly offering 2.5 mil prorated by 1/3 due to games played, and said team is now claiming?!?!.. he wants too much money which makes me doubt the validity of the initial offer.. or in eu...he comes back in the exact same situation next year. Zero leverage. No arbitrarion.

The smart play is to either sign the 1 year qualifying offer and get arb next year. Or sign the 2 year at 1.9 offer for the extra 3 mil and work towards a bigger contract when he has more options and leverage.


I agree -- checkmate, game over.

While he is a promising young player, Holland holds all the cards. This is not a Cup contending team, so AA's absence doesn't have much short-term ramifications.

He's no Fedorov...or even Drouin.


Holland doesn't hold all the cards.
Athanasiou isn't in Detroit, is he?

That's Athanasiou's card.
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Re: AA Update

Postby Pop Zeus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:36 pm

aTTicA wrote:And if you tell your neighbor you are only willing to pay 14k for his truck and he tells you a turkish prince is willing to pay 16k and this is your last chance to match his offer then a month later said turkish prince says hes asking too much it likely means that offer never existed.

And if your neighbor threatens to then sell his truck to someone in switzerland for 1700 if you wont go to 16k, then hes either full of shit or an idiot. Meanwhile his truck is depreciating and he has run out of offers.

And if we want to keep signing contracts based on what abby helm ericcsson and glenny got as comparables, have fun signing mantha and larkin to 9 mil deals. It had to stop somewhere.


Stop being retarded.
If you want the truck and he won't budge, you pay or you don't get the truck.
That's the bottom line.
If the other guy seems comfortable with the idea of not selling it to you, than you live without it.

So the black book value is nothing more than a guide.
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Re: AA Update

Postby dcz28 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:10 pm

heyfolks wrote:
CoconutBackwards wrote:
holytoledo wrote:
cska91 wrote:I find the argument that AA should not argue over a few thousand dollars, swallow his pride, sign a short deal and earn it on the ice... completely laughable. Why is Holland arguing over a few thousand dollars then? Oh, wait. I forgot. He doesn't have the cap space because he mortgaged the Red Wings' future for years to come.

Remember how Holland explained Ericsson's contract and several of the ones above? These players were supposed to grow into a bigger a role and be a great bargain. Why doesn't that apply to AA, a young kid with great potential?

This organization is biting its own nose off to spite its face by making AA hold the short end of the stick. The hypocrisy, idiocy and incompetence are mind-boggling. They are willing to piss away a good young player over a bridge deal.


It appears that perhaps Holland has learned his lesson. Unfortunately AA is the exact kind of player that Holland should be trying to make those bets on.

Unfortunately all of those other bad deals are on the books, as well as Weiss, and the situation is what it is. The one that frosts me is 3x3+ for Trevor Fucking Dailey. I'd prefer to have not signed him at all, but Holland really needed a better handle on this before signing Dailey and it's hard to believe that Dailey couldn't have been had for something more like 3x2.5.


Where do you see any indication that Holland's dumb ass has learned anything?


He's not signing AA to a ridiculous contract.


A short term 2.5 million a year contract is ridiculous? There are a shit load of bad contracts on this team but i doubt this (if they signed him to what he wants) would be considered as such. AA still has a lot of potential to be worth way more.

This playing hardball with AA doesn't mean Holland is learning anything at all. Holland is almost always playing hardball with younger RFAs and this was never really his problem. His problem is always overpaying for guys that will become or are UFAs...playing hardball with AA doesn't mean squat when it comes to that. I would rather he overpays a bit for a young player with potential (especially short term) than overpay a player on the downside (long term) that everyone knows will never live up to that contract and be an albatross in the last few years of the contract.

I mean AA at 2.5 a year would have to be some kind of horrible for nobody to even want him in a trade at that salary on a short term deal. Just look at Sheahan...apparently some teams wanted him at 2 mil a year for a guy that hadn't even scored a single goal at the the deadline and was playing like total shit with lots of PP time.
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Re: AA Update

Postby Zattaman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:59 am

Pop Zeus wrote:
Zattaman wrote:
aTTicA wrote:If he signs tomorrow it doesnt cost him much this year. But every day he waits costs him more. And if im reading the info right if aa refuses to sign his qualifying offer this year on the 1 year deal...he cannot get arbitration next year either.

If he plays in the khl..who were supposedly offering 2.5 mil prorated by 1/3 due to games played, and said team is now claiming?!?!.. he wants too much money which makes me doubt the validity of the initial offer.. or in eu...he comes back in the exact same situation next year. Zero leverage. No arbitrarion.

The smart play is to either sign the 1 year qualifying offer and get arb next year. Or sign the 2 year at 1.9 offer for the extra 3 mil and work towards a bigger contract when he has more options and leverage.


I agree -- checkmate, game over.

While he is a promising young player, Holland holds all the cards. This is not a Cup contending team, so AA's absence doesn't have much short-term ramifications.

He's no Fedorov...or even Drouin.


Holland doesn't hold all the cards.
Athanasiou isn't in Detroit, is he?

That's Athanasiou's card.


The only way this is a winnable scenario for him would be if Holland trades him.
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Re: AA Update

Postby Scottgaf » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:21 am

holytoledo wrote:
Scottgaf wrote:
If Detroit is trying to win, the defense must get better.


Adding Trevor Dailey to a roster that needs a complete overhaul isn't trying to win. If you're not really trying to win, you shouldn't take half-assed steps that block signing your own kids and maybe effect your draft position.

Hickets/Russo/Spoul/Sulak should be getting those minutes and AA should be signed.


I don't disagree with you. Most GMS whose jobs are on the line won't take that approach though.
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Re: AA Update

Postby southfield sam » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:19 am

Pop Zeus wrote:
aTTicA wrote:And if you tell your neighbor you are only willing to pay 14k for his truck and he tells you a turkish prince is willing to pay 16k and this is your last chance to match his offer then a month later said turkish prince says hes asking too much it likely means that offer never existed.

And if your neighbor threatens to then sell his truck to someone in switzerland for 1700 if you wont go to 16k, then hes either full of shit or an idiot. Meanwhile his truck is depreciating and he has run out of offers.

And if we want to keep signing contracts based on what abby helm ericcsson and glenny got as comparables, have fun signing mantha and larkin to 9 mil deals. It had to stop somewhere.


Stop being retarded.
If you want the truck and he won't budge, you pay or you don't get the truck.
That's the bottom line.
If the other guy seems comfortable with the idea of not selling it to you, than you live without it.

So the black book value is nothing more than a guide.



That might be the dumbest analogy I have ever heard! So instead of taking $14k for the truck your neighbor settles for $1,400. So AA sits in Switzerland , making ZERO dollars and forfieting a prime development year, but at least it's pretty there
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Re: AA Update

Postby Pop Zeus » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:10 pm

Scottgaf wrote:
holytoledo wrote:
Scottgaf wrote:
If Detroit is trying to win, the defense must get better.


Adding Trevor Dailey to a roster that needs a complete overhaul isn't trying to win. If you're not really trying to win, you shouldn't take half-assed steps that block signing your own kids and maybe effect your draft position.

Hickets/Russo/Spoul/Sulak should be getting those minutes and AA should be signed.


I don't disagree with you. Most GMS whose jobs are on the line won't take that approach though.


Ken Holland has enough clout that if he said "Look, we need a real rebuild. it's going to hurt for a few years. But we'll market the team around the exciting young stars," the Illitches would listen.
But he didn't. Holland's the one who sets the course for this team.
New arenas sell themselves for a few years anyway.
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Re: AA Update

Postby southfield sam » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Pop Zeus wrote:
Scottgaf wrote:
holytoledo wrote:
Scottgaf wrote:
If Detroit is trying to win, the defense must get better.


Adding Trevor Dailey to a roster that needs a complete overhaul isn't trying to win. If you're not really trying to win, you shouldn't take half-assed steps that block signing your own kids and maybe effect your draft position.

Hickets/Russo/Spoul/Sulak should be getting those minutes and AA should be signed.


I don't disagree with you. Most GMS whose jobs are on the line won't take that approach though.


Ken Holland has enough clout that if he said "Look, we need a real rebuild. it's going to hurt for a few years. But we'll market the team around the exciting young stars," the Illitches would listen.
But he didn't. Holland's the one who sets the course for this team.
New arenas sell themselves for a few years anyway.


and you know how that the conversation about a rebuild never took place and ownership decided that wasn't the way they wanted to go? You sure seem to be well connected with inside information, yet you are almost never right
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Re: AA Update

Postby Wizard of Corsica » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:13 pm

Zattaman wrote:
Pop Zeus wrote:
Zattaman wrote:
aTTicA wrote:If he signs tomorrow it doesnt cost him much this year. But every day he waits costs him more. And if im reading the info right if aa refuses to sign his qualifying offer this year on the 1 year deal...he cannot get arbitration next year either.

If he plays in the khl..who were supposedly offering 2.5 mil prorated by 1/3 due to games played, and said team is now claiming?!?!.. he wants too much money which makes me doubt the validity of the initial offer.. or in eu...he comes back in the exact same situation next year. Zero leverage. No arbitrarion.

The smart play is to either sign the 1 year qualifying offer and get arb next year. Or sign the 2 year at 1.9 offer for the extra 3 mil and work towards a bigger contract when he has more options and leverage.


I agree -- checkmate, game over.

While he is a promising young player, Holland holds all the cards. This is not a Cup contending team, so AA's absence doesn't have much short-term ramifications.

He's no Fedorov...or even Drouin.


Holland doesn't hold all the cards.
Athanasiou isn't in Detroit, is he?

That's Athanasiou's card.


The only way this is a winnable scenario for him would be if Holland trades him.


That might be his endgame in the first place. It's worth remembering a big part of the reason he dropped to the 4th round was his attitude, and then he pouted about Dale Hunter's coaching until they dealt him out of London.
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Re: AA Update

Postby Scottgaf » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:14 am

Ilitch was never on board with a rebuild for either the wings or the Tigers. In fact he fired Dave Dombrowski for selling at the deadline.

What makes you think he wouldn't do the same with Holland.
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